I did 24 years in the ARMY and have been led by West Pointers! You and everybody else. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. Cream only. That one NCO who doesn't give a crap about you is the one you should be talking to. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. But Im sure he felt stung just a little bit. The cadet would still have to be "Regularly Assigned". The smart LT listens to his/her NCO and seeks counsel from him/her. A rescinding announcement is required if the temporary assumption of command is for an indefinite period. I do not cater to idiots and refuse to acknowledge someone that does not even respect the rank they expect their subordinates to respect. Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". They aren't " in the pipeline" yet regarding training , experience or anything else yet. That just goes to show that the regular cadets get crapped on and they can't change it. During cadet training we were paid at the rate of an E5. Sam is currently a Master of Arts student at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) in preparation for a teaching . FOOLISH it is for there to be any antagonism between NCOs and cadets, or NCOs and lieutenants. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. Every. The Cadet wr had wrote all of us NCOs that trained him, some. Point is that one never knows what lies down the road so I try to treat everyone with respect regardless of their rank or position. This group helped liberate a huge swath of Syria. The February 24, 2022 invasion of Ukraine resulted in news reports of fear in the streets of Kyiv as Ukrainian forces engaged in " a frantic hunt for spies and traitors ," as well as saboteurs and teams seeking to kill President Zelensky and 23 other leaders within Ukraine. Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. I have to say that I got a little bit of vindication when I went back to obtain some records from my old guard unit. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". American soldiers first occupied West Point on January 27, 1778. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. It broke my heart when I found out that officers can not be snipers. The OP's original post wasn't worded correctly. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. All West Point applicants must meet the following personal qualifications before applying: Be a US citizen (unless you qualify under one of the exceptions) Be at least 17 but not 23 or older on July 1 of the year they enter West Point. Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. Is anyone able to give me a solid answer to this question? Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. Thats what the reg says, but how does that work in practice? My first platoon leader was OCS, my other two were USMA. Non-Standard Uniforms. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. He was commissioned as an infantry officer from the US Military Academy at West Point in 2008 and began Special Forces training in 2012. Superior to a mere cunning, lazy enlisted man. Nobody reads your comments past the first four lines. It goes both ways and without Officers the Army would surely still fall apart. Some in the media and NGOs were quick to claim . And make it quick Lieutenant. entitled to the salute.". The cadet does not outrank a senior NCO E7 or above. THAT is the reason why the Army is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on you to be educated there. -Mentor these young cadets so that they can grow into the Officers that will leverage all the outstanding traits of the NCO Corps. You have to look at national guard and the reserves. So glad I longer serve. The use of software that blocks ads hinders our ability to serve you the content you came here to enjoy. Saluting a cadet completely invalidates the First Salute ceremony when they commission. So our government invested thousands on a lying, dishonest, ill-informed, and immature man child to lead others. Appreciate your reply. You are not a leader because you graduated from an academy. Great investment. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. His service with the 5 th Special Forces Group (Airborne) has included leading in Iraq, Syria, and other locations in the Middle East. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. In the military, XO refers to a second-in-command officer, or more generally, an executive officer.The XO typically reports to the commanding officer, who also goes by the names the first lieutenant and the number one. I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. Example: In the U.S. Military a Warrant Officer (W-2W-5) are commissioned but are not gentlemen officers. Allow them to lead you too! . document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. "(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16." A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. We need not be concerned about the proviso of either 2-15 or 2-16 as each applies to a Soldier under certain sanctions of discipline. Sam served as a Special Forces Detachment Commander from 2016-2019, including deployments to Somalia and Nigeria. Tired of all the "barracks lawyers" looking for some sort of designated, assigned, or "official" trappings of respect; absent the need to EARN that respect. Dont take it as a sign of disrespect however. Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. Just try it. I agree with you Sir. Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. Search . If you think a fellow West Point graduate is a great leader, see how she/he behaves after having a soldier vaporized by an RPG in front of him. This item is part of Wartime Military Memorabilia Auction. It'd be an advantage coming from an Airborne infantry unit too, usually from the 82nd. Elite only in their mind. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. Army-Navy Uniforms 2022: 1st Armored Division 2021: Special Forces Command 2020: 25th Infantry Division 2019: 1st Cavalry Division 2018: 1st Infantry Division 2017: 10th Mountain Division 2016: 82nd Airborne Division Go Army! Such questions are usually better asked through private means. I found from many years in the Army - with many years in the Special Operations forces - that if you do your current job great it will open the doors to the next job. Start putting what youve learned to the test with Field Training, Fundamentals of Army Operations, and courses in foreign language, physics, American politics, and more. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. Interestingly, one weekend I had a pass and visited a college friend at a nearby naval base where he was undergoing Navy Aviation Cadet training. Sir. As that was a long time ago, my memories of the experience were that it was the best and the worst of both worlds. I learned something that day. Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. Cadets should know that they must earn respect. It is used to predict a candidate's aptitude for the physical program at the service academies. Abigail P. Gage is a national security professional with experience in the Department of Defense, at the Executive Office of the President, and on Capitol Hill. Technically, they aren't even qualified to fulfill a team leader slot. When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. So let me get this straight a probably well connect cadet who memorize info given to them as well as staying nice and tidy, as yet to graduate or earn a degree yet some how thinks that they are officers. They aren't commissioned though, depending on the service, they are somewhere around a W1. If athletic challenges excite you and youre willing to face your weaknesses and grow, youll face fear and conquer it at West Point. A straight up lie from a boy who thinks book smarts makes him am expert in my mos. (3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16. What I'm saying is - IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN -, if you want to get into "action" (which I am assuming is what you want) as an Officer, PERHAPS the Green Berets might fit your desires better. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. www.Spartan.com/091According to Col. Liam Collins, Phd., Special Forces Qualified Officer, West Point Professor,and past winner of the Best Ranger Competitio. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Creating a Sea Change: TF 76/3, Adaptation, Experimentation, and the Joint Force, Podcast: The Spear The Strategic Lieutenant, MWI Podcast: When Cities Become Battlefields, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. One of the biggest reasons to pursue Officership through USMA at West Point is free tuition, including an annual stipend of more than $10,000. I'm not a regular progression cadet so this is a better look at the situation. So there is definitely some need to define regularly assigned. How does one get involved with special forces after West Point? It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander if the announcement gives the time element involved. I've seen this relationship play out in the Army. If you run a command climate where you relegate your NCOs to small picture things, you will be a small picture unit and your good NCOs will find their way out of your unit and you will be left with small picture, tunnel vision type folks such as those that you describe. At West Point now and am trying to gauge which option I should pursue branch wise out of here. I too am an honorably discharged Army Vet from an Army family. I hope this sheds some light on things. but after I had earned my keep so to speak he spent a lot of time teaching and mentoring this Dot head and when I was commissioned he took time off from his civilian job to come to the commissioning ceremony to congratulate me. AR 600-20 lists command structure. -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. Is the cadet attached or assigned a leadership position? All true. Its part of the academys mission to educate, train, inspire, and instill the values of duty, honor, and country. Somebody at USMA needs to ensure cadets are informed about their precedence in the order of ranks and teach them that while they are at AOT/CLTC, etc. Future leader in some position in our AF. I was recently in a conversation with a senior noncommissioned officer in an elite US Army unit, when the subject of CTLT came up. Your comment reeks of arrogance. (I was going through a few operations connected to wound recovery). Warrant Officers are formally addressed as "Mister." We can feel confident we did our hob helping train a. (Still, there is no need to salute them. If you want to be an medic, enlist as one. Before anyone attacks me, I am a prior Army SSG who is now a MSIV Cadet (Active duty and Branched). Matthew Wiger is an active duty US Army officer and a doctoral researcher in the School of Security Studies at Kings College, London. Cadets are never saluted. Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. The Army is always evolving but power bitches have always been around, we just don't frag them as we used to. The ones that get emotional about my post will reply as expected and miss the lesson altogether because they've been hard wired to respond that way. We only go to attention for officers. We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. And yet, the UCMJ does hold all commissioned officers, including CW2-CW5, accountable for their behavior, as they are subject to Article 133, Conduct Unbecoming and Officer and Gentlemen. Only the pay grade the cadet holds. Nurses don't outrank med students or vice-versa. Gain the Advantage With a Full-Tuition Scholarship. She began her career as an active duty US Army officer and continues her service as an over-time major in the National Guard. Gold - Gold as in the Class Rings received cadet's senior year, or like the plentiful Brass found on the cadet uniform and the rank/insignia patches worn by upperclassmen designating their cadet rank and position. I highly doubt any West Point graduate will magically "see the light" after reading my imput on this discussion. The official General page for the Army West Point Black Knights. Answer (1 of 2): Infantry officers that are West Point grads and have Airborne and Ranger school completed usually all get selected after completing SFAS. A little background: I received my commission as a 2LT in May 1987 after spending two years in the SMP where I was enrolled as a senior ROTC Cadet (MSIII and MSIV) while serving simultaneously in a National Guard Unit. Treat the Cadets with respect. A very interesting thread. Joseph John Quichocho, 1SG E-8 RETIRED US ARMY. The whole point of going to West Point is to earn a commission. Or a sergeant major for that matter. Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. . Biography LTC Joshua Lehman is a 2005 graduate of West Point and a career Special Forces officer. They clearly outrank privates and are often assigned to leadership roles, but they aren't yet commissioned. Als u niet wilt dat wij en onze partners cookies en persoonsgegevens voor deze aanvullende doeleinden gebruiken, klik dan op 'Alles weigeren'. Life 101. Lees ons privacybeleid en cookiebeleid voor meer informatie over hoe we uw persoonsgegevens gebruiken. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. Pursue a bachelors degree and earn your commission as an Officer by attending the countrys most prestigious military service college. I respected his rank and expertise, but I detested him otherwise. the leadership essentially passed off their job.. but i ythink it is good these future officers learn from those entrusted to prepare the sustenance.. instead of those that havent actually been in thr kitchen for a couple years. JavaScript is disabled. Seriously get over yourselves West Point you produce officers like any other university and they are no better or worse than anyone else. 18A Special Forces officer is NOT a selection for branches on graduating from West Point. I request you review 600-20again. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. Anyway. I would argue that the NCO/CO rivalries have started as a result of more modern times as compared to past wars and generations and honestly it should stop. So I think he had it right. And taken that way. We ask that you consider turning off your ad blocker so we can deliver you the best experience possible while you are here. Good answer. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992.