Sue Klebold, whose son Dylan, 17, went on a shooting rampage with his friend Eric Harris, 18, at their high school in Colorado in 1999, . . He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. Andreas Lubitz, Adam Lanza, Dylan Klebold and Anders Breivik (from left to right) On the second . I knew it wasnt nearly so simple (p. 146). We relate. How they could live with themselves is beyond me. I wanted an apology. In April 1981, Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. of course, tom has never come out and publicly spoken the way sue has; from my personal observation he seems to be a little more torn up about it than she. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? His father was an Air Force pilot, and moved him and his . Stop doing that." The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . "I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy.". Age : 36. Family & Personal Life. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. Who is "limiting" the discussion to the brain? Good-bye. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. R77, there are people who don't have feelings. I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy. Harris' family eventually settled in Colorado in 1992. Harris was a "budding psychopath, a person without a conscience," he said. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. Children learn psychopathy from their parents (e.g., the Bushes). on Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 Some folks do indeed work from very primitive brain impulses. Dylan also writes in his journal that. Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? But a new book, x93Columbine,x94 by Dave Cullen, reviews every bit of evidence about the shooting short of the parentsx92 firsthand accounts x97 25,000 pages of documents, including videotapes and journals of the killers x97 all of which point to the same chilling conclusion as the Carneal depositions: it is entirely possible for x93goodx94 parents to raise a murderer. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Eric's also wearing a plaid shirt that's either dark blue or black with white, with a white t-shirt on underneath. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . "He got his satisfaction by dominating." There's a blurb on the back flap comparing the book to Helter Skelter and In Cold Blood, and I thought that was just kind of typical PR purple mumbo-jumbo. In any case, teenagers can be quite unfair to their parents. His lower half can't be seen. I think you did an excellent job with this blog post. Dylan was a depressed teenager with many mental issues. By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? Just as the son's evil made people go back and re-evaluate his dad, discovering examples like the time Poppy sabotaged his opponent's sail boat the night before the race; one wonders if one should investigate more closely the dealings of the Harrises. To develop coping skills. People need to understand this could have happened to them, he said. . Sue Klebold. [quote]No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. [quote]None of us knows exactly how the brain works. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. It just seems all a bit odd. Has anybody ever agreed with you about that, r104? Younger brother to Kevin Harris (21 at the time). IIRC, they both had psychiatric attention. Per the other Columbine thread, I'm in the midst of reading Dave Cullen's "Columbine." Wayne - who owned guns himself - told the clerk he hadn't ordered any clips. Its exactly people like you that caused this massacre to happen in the first place. And it wasnx92t because they werenx92t around. I found this thred on accident and had to comment. When I was in high school, i was friends with a guy who very well could have done what those kids did. She also spent a lot of time conferencing with my teachers to know how well I was doing in school and she was interested in my assignments. We've never left. The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. No scientist knows this absolutely. As she says, The rest of the world could explain away what he had done: either he was born evil a bad seed or hed been raised without moral guidance. His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). And even then we may never uncover the truth. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. Harris's father erroneously stated that his son was "a member of what they call the Trenchcoat Mafia" in a 9-1-1 call he made on April 20, 1999. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. His father Wayne was a U.S. Air Force transport pilot . They cry innocence and ignorance, when I know they were anything BUT. The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened. YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! There was a documentary on Netflix or somewhere in which she t. Is that correct? Harris also had sadistic tendencies, which propelled him to "seek vengeance.". Dylan Klebold had been accepted by the University of Arizona and planned to attend this fall. She just took interest and responsibility for what I did as long as I was both underage and under her roof. ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! it was probably dylan just being a snarky and sardonic person if the relationship had ever crumbled, or a classic father/son conflict. What happened isn't their fault. As the mother of Columbine High School shooter Dylan Klebold prepares to speak out in her first interview since the gruesome 1999 shooting massacre, a survivor of the attacks has . When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Very few people really care. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives. From what we cam tell, the Harris family took a laissez-faire attitude towards Eric. COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. I've always felt sorry for Dylan, who seemed so lost and depressed. We are ich bin auslander! Weren't they in a small group of rebellious kids? There are several theories but there is not one definition. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. Klebold, S. (2016). Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! Were not qualified to sort this out. At the same time, the father must have believed that his son's future was still bright. , What was the deadliest school shooting? I don't think the parents are to blame and never had, but it's a lot easier hating these two kids and their parents then hating the society that produced them. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. The Klebolds stayed, at least as of 2004. "In the very . Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. I want you to have that fly CD. While I was able to share the manner by which she communicated her ideas and insights, I wasnt able to actually share those insights and ideas. Dylan Bennet Klebold Born: 9-11-1981 6 feet 2.5 inches tall, 143 lbs. I was in high school at the time. Dylan, Cullen writes, was depressed. It wasnt accepted.. If that;s the case, why did he have so many friends? Betty Shoels, Isaiah's aunt, said that "her 18-year-old nephew was a fun-loving athlete who was always smiling, despite feeling out of place as one of the school's few African-American students." . It may have hurt him. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are once more in the family room of the Harris home. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, walked into Columbine High School with shotguns, automatic weapons, and homemade pipe . I havent done anything for which I need forgiveness, Susan Klebold said. His father, who had been in the military, was strict with Eric, and actions in that house had consequences. Read a little more about the case, R28. Yaron Steinbuch. You're an idiot. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. "Doctors" can profit, too, financially, when their names are attached to certain "studies.". Sorry. ", [quote]Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". These two need to be gutted and hung out for the vultures. r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. Dylan kept talking about college, about his future. I mean, I purposefully avoided everything except a quick glance at the CNN and MSNBC frontpages, but they had stories about the anniversary pretty front and center. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. He had friends, but felt as if he were a burden; he wanted love, but the girl he was interested in didnt know he existed. But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . Spelling aside, Eric Harris had turned 18 about a week prior. The attack on Columbine is almost a prototypical school shooting, but one way in which it stands out is that it was committed by two people together. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. His father claimed his body but the burial site is unknown. Several phone callers to the Jewish News have . Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Funny how things cycle.". ", Eric "If only we would have searched their room. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. Neither seemed to know where or with whom he was most of the time. I read recently that neither set of parents ever spoke publicly or to the media. Dylans parents were hands-on parents who limited the intake of television and sugary cereals. Answer (1 of 2): His mother has (admirably, if belatedly) committed herself to educating people on how to spot the signs of malignant tendencies in their children in an effort to help separate real danger signs from "normal" teen BS. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. In this case, the other shooter played a pivotal role in stoking Dylans rage and allowing him to break out of his own passivity and actually take steps toward the suicide he craved. [quote]But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. You unterstand. (p. 277). May 15, 2004. I don't really know what to say about the parents. Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the gunman, had been bullied for several years prior to the massacre. These things outweighed their concerns about him. I know my mom and dad will be just like.. just fucking shocked beyond belief. By. I guess it's my generation. (They said no.) "some manipulate, like my parents.". If anything, they seemed to hate everyone equally. I can't find any photos of Eric's older brother, Kevin. However, most people know they are guilty as sin and should burn in hell with their son. In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Tom was a geophysicist, Sue worked with handicapped people. Parents were not paying attention to what was in plain sight, or didn't want to deal with it. Klebold attended the high . How can you not hear your child scream? What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. Dylan is wearing a black baseball cap on backward, exposing a "B" embroidered in white on the back of the hat - the Boston Red Sox logo. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. They believe what they want to believe. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. Has anyone seen it who can comment? When I moved out on my own I gained the privacy afforded to adults. ", "R77, there are people who don't have feelings.". Ridiculous. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. I'm with VoTN on this one. What happened to them? 1/12 Tom is home from the hospital. Dylan Klebold was interviewed inside the Columbine libary on January 30th, 1998. Maybe he needs to go home. Sue and her husband were vehemently opposed, but Dylan still asked for a gun for Christmas his final year. : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Dylan Klebold was 17 when he and Harris,18, carried out their long-planned attack on the high school about 13 miles south of downtown Denver. ". Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris opened fire at the suburban Denver school on April 20, 1999, killing 13 people before taking their own lives. However, it is my understanding from reviews that he contends the boys actually had a circle of friends and were, in fact, popular within that group. Dylan Klebold Character Analysis. Klebold's parents, Thomas and Susan, lived in a sprawling, secluded house on a dirt road. I can't remember. They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the two shooters who committed the Columbine High School massacre, murdering 12 students and a teacher. 18 year old son of Wayne Nelson Harris and Katherine (Kathy) Ann [Pool] Harris. Wayne worked as a transport pilot for the United States Air Force, while . Very,very sad but not surprising.The majority of parents who have lost a child end up splitting up.No matter how much they loved each other or how strong of a relationship they had before the tremendous strain and grief is often too much to endure. Dylan has been so reclusive. Bull fucking shit. His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. 6. ", Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. He was a sociopath and needed drugs and a really good psychiatrist. How can that not bother you? His grades fell to average. I hated her for a few years but its not a clear depiction of the totality of our relationship. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. Though posthumous diagnosis isnt possible, that Dylan was seriously depressed is not up for debate (p. 160), and his behaviors might have also fit the criteria for other diagnoses such as avoidant personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, and/or borderline personality disorder. Sue would later find out through his journals though that by sophomore year he was battling depression and suicidal thoughts. Ignore them. When someone is in a store, that is not their own private property. Dylan wrote an essay about a school shooting that disturbed his teacher enough that it was referred to the school counselor. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. Tom's surgery was today. And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? How are parents supposed to know everything that goes on in their children's minds? "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". Some psychopaths are obsessed with money or power, but when you combine psychopathy with sadism, you get an Eric Harris. Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. And now she won't show it. In 1997 Wayne Harris, Eric's father, started logging all of his son's problems. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". Byron indicated the last time he saw Dylan was on their father's birthday. As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . I think it's really odd that Tom Said Dylan was His best friend and Dylan Kind of didn't seem to care at all about his dadso one of them Had a really wrong perception. psycho school, nasty students, bullshit teachers, ignorant parents, hormones, bullying, rage. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. I have cousins who did shit like this - what was I supposed to do, call the cops and tell them to search their bedrooms because they might be crazy? That's the first thing. Dylan was remembered as a Cub Scout who attended church with his family. Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylan's best friend. They were not the mainstream group. Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? He started getting in trouble, and complained of how certain groups of kids were ruthless bullies, yet the school did nothing to stop them. A Further Examination: Sue Klebolds case study of her son, Dylan Klebold, Trauma and Suicide within Law Enforcement, Mental Health and Mass Murders: The Connection between Trauma and School Shootings, Mental Health Treatment in Correctional Facilities, Forensic Behavior Analysis: Self Care in the CJ Field, Trauma in Female Juvenile Inmates and Delinquents. Dylanx92s father worked from home and saw his son every day. It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. GOLDEN, Colo. (AP) _ Less than three months before his deadly rampage at Columbine High School, Dylan Klebold was described by a probation officer as intelligent and capable of making any dream happen, according to juvenile records made public Friday. Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. It profiles Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold's mother, and examines what lessons Americans should take away from the tragedy. A lot of psychiatry is and has always been about cheap quick labels, rather than an honest analysis of the society in which individuals live. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". After the killing: How parents of attackers cope. School shooters often show little attachment to their school. Ken Caryl Middle, where he met Dylan Klebold. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. Even if they had friends doesn;t mean they were popular or well-liked generally.